Interview with ESPN writer Scoop Jackson: Is Kevin Garnett the most complete NBA player of all-time?
Scoop Jackson, from his early days at SLAM Magazine, is a basketball writer synonymous with the explosion and meshing of hip hop and the NBA underpinned by a unique style that has changed how we read about basketball. He became the pulse of a developing culture with his Chicago pen, where Jackson first covered Kevin Garnett during his high school days at Farragut Academy.
Jackson pushed forward the artistry, passion and skill of "ballers" by highlighting the athletes in a culturally enriching fashion. Jackson was a writing sensei to many because he humanized the NBA in a rhythmic, good-for-the-culture kind of way. As fans grow closer to the game through the convenience of social media, it can be said Jackson was way before his time.
Jackson appears in the recently released Showtime documentary Kevin Garnett: Anything Is Possible, so I hit him up to get an even deeper sense of Garnett's career from Jackson's Chicago eyes.
Jackson says something about KG historically that will be massively debated, so get your thinking cap on. We also talked about pippen-news-book-unguarded-michael-jordan-charles-barkley-shaquille-oneal-kobe-bryant-phil-jackson-tex-winter" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-is-sponsored="false">Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson, Ben Simmons, the 1983 Philadelphia 76ers and a few other topics.
Those early 2000's Power Forward matchups were ✨ spectacular ✨
Kevin Garnett: #AnythingIsPossible is streaming now. https://t.co/Th2ZLyFri9
Scoop, the scene in the documentary where you mention being the only media member who covered Garnett both in high school and in the NBA after the Boston Celtics won the 2008 NBA championship was interesting. Fans should be glad you were there to document his spirit and emotion after achieving the biggest goal in the NBA.
Jackson: When I looked around the room and saw that hardly anybody was there to see him in high school, when you get to the NBA Finals, it’s the cream of the crop. Everyone sends their best to cover. No one was even there to cover from Minnesota. It’s just all the top dudes. No one there had been on the ride with him at all.
I don’t normally ask questions in press scrums, but in this particular instance, I didn’t want Kevin to think he’s alone. He’s going through this, and finally where he has always wanted to get to, and none of these (expletives) know him. He might have seen them during the year because it was his first year in Boston, but they were new to him because he’d never been to the Finals before.
I wanted to let him know that I was there so he didn’t feel alone in thinking that no one in the room got what this moment meant to him.
I spoke to Garnett after the Celtics won their 50th game of the 2008 season here in Philadelphia, and at that time I thought this outcome would be inevitable: Boston would win the NBA. The last time we saw a team like that outside the obvious Bulls teams was the 1983 Philadelphia 76ers.
Kevin Garnett speaking facts about the #NBAFinals (via @KGArea21) https://t.co/IPwIcHFuhv
Jackson: Yes, exactly! Which (the 76ers of 1983) to me is still one of the greatest teams, if not the greatest team ever.
Agreed. I don’t know why that team doesn’t get more shine. Guess it's because (Los Angeles Lakers star) James Worthy was hurt (and missed Philadelphia's four-game sweep).
Jackson: Still, it wouldn’t have made a difference.
Nope. That team was just amazing.
Jackson: The way they did in the regular season and the way they swept in the playoffs? C’mon, man. In a one-season situation, I’ll take that team over anyone.
Doc (NBA legend Julius Erving) was laid-back on that team. He wasn’t the 1980 Doc.
Jackson: Nah. Not at all.
When Maurice Cheeks (a guard on that Philadelphia championship team) coached, Doc would tell me to ask him about his "Doc eye" (where Cheeks would always know where Doc was on the court).
The last play of the 1983 Finals in L.A., where Mo goes up and dunks for the final points, is what Doc is referring to. Doc says he usually has that "Doc eye," but not on that last play. That’s another cat out of Chicago. Cheeks was my dude here in Philly. Hoping he gets one more shot to be an NBA head coach.
Jackson: Yes, let’s hope.
KG is one where you don’t have to rank him. He has his own spot in time, right? (Dallas Mavericks star) Dirk Nowitzki took the stretch five into another dimension, yet it was transformed originally by Kevin Garnett. He could do it smoothly like Derrick Coleman and others.
KG was on another level, because he had a defensive prowess. His defensive presence is what you feel first about him. Where do you see KG all time? If we were on the asphalt playing pickup, and all the legends of the game were lined on the fence, where is KG getting picked?
Jackson: For me, personally, I’ll say this. This is the best way I can answer this question. I will argue with anybody about this. I don’t think there has ever been a more complete, fundamentally sound basketball player that’s ever lived.
I want you to think about that. With his height, with his lift, with his intensity, name me anybody that has the physical gifts that he has to play every facet of the game of basketball at that high level. You can’t find it. He has a pure jump shot. He has range. He has fluidity. He has movement. He has instincts. He has handles. He can defend the rim. He can guard you outside of the post. His footwork …
Name me one player that has all that. Find me one part of the game that this cat could not do. Just one. Left hand. Right hand. He is literally, in my mind, the most complete basketball player we’re ever going to see.
Now, you’ve seen other cats be able to do this but not at that height. That’s what changes, it because basketball still is a game that leans towards height giving you an advantage. Nobody that size was able to do what he was able to do as far as his skills are concerned outside of the post. Nobody can run the floor like that.
There is nothing in his game that he cannot do, and he doesn’t half-ass do it. He does it and gives it everything.
He goes for it every play.
Jackson: It’s the physical gifts. (Hall of Fame center) kareem-abdul-jabbar-nba-s-leading-scorer-time-we-look-numbers-far-hold-future" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-is-sponsored="false">Kareem Abdul-Jabbar could not run the floor like that. Kareem could not handle the ball like that. He had great touch 15 feet in, and even the skyhook, he took it outside.
Kareem could not shoot like Kevin. Even though they weren’t doing it back then, he could not guard the perimeter. He didn’t have the fluidity. (Houston Rockets center) Hakeem Olajuwon didn’t have the range that KG had. He rebounded and blocked shots better than Shaq (Hall of Fame center Shaquille O'Neal)!
I want you to really think about it. Go through the history of the game and name somebody that is that complete of a basketball player.
The guy I was going to mention was Dream (Olajuwon), yet he didn’t have the handles.
Jackson: He couldn’t go coast to coast like that. He couldn’t guard point guards. KG, in my mind, is the most complete basketball player we’ve ever seen. Just from that standpoint. The second player to that, in my mind, is (Brooklyn Nets guard) Kyrie Irving. If you look at it from that standpoint, there is nothing that he can’t do. Nothing. So, you asked a question of where would I pick him?
To me? KG? If we’re playing basketball on the blocks, and I don’t care who is out there. Jordan? LeBron? I don’t care. Wilt Chamberlain? Kareem? Moses (Malone)? Doc? I don’t care.
Kevin Garnett is the dude I’m picking first.
Because guess what? I know I’m getting everything. Like everything. I’m getting everything this game was invented to do. I’m getting everything. So to me it’s not about a ranking. I’m breaking it down to the simplest common denominator. If we’re playing pickup ball and everybody that has ever played the game is available, I’m picking that (expletive) first!
And I hate to say it, but I’m picking Kyrie second.
An NBA Jam dream (for video gamers). Kyrie and KG? My goodness.
Jackson: Right! You’re not missing anything. Everything is covered. Now, you may not win the game. There’s other factors that go in, but I’m taking that, because I know what I’m getting when I put this duo together. There are no shortcomings. There are only a handful of players that have ever played this game that has that.
Being here in Philly, as far as being the most technically sound player, I’ll go with (Hall of Fame guard/forward) Kobe Bryant.
Jackson: Kobe’s shot selection was horrible. That’s the only problem with him is shot selection. That’s what separates him from Mike. He’s as good as Mike, but his shot selection is off. That’s it, but that means a lot.
That means a whole lot. I’m biased about Kobe admittedly. I have this evolution of the slasher thing where I have Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins, Julius Erving, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. I thought the next evolution would be (Golden State Warriors forward) Andrew Wiggins, but it ain’t.
Jackson: What made you think that?
I saw he had the same athleticism as Kobe, and I didn’t see him outside of the mixtape. When I finally saw him play, I knew he wasn’t that guy.
Jackson: Watching him play in Canada, he just didn’t have that dog in him.
Yeah, he doesn’t have that Mitchell (his father, who was an NBA bulldog) in him.
Jackson: Right!
Happens with second-generation professional athletes at times.
Jackson: That depends on where they came from. Look at where Mitchell came from and compare that to where Andrew came from. The son had it a lot easier.
Way different.
Jackson: You may be born with a particular skillset, but a lot of it comes from where you came from.
Yup.
Jackson: That what makes Kobe and Steph so unique – and (Hall of Fame forward) Grant Hill. They’re not supposed to be as hungry as they were. They are not supposed to be that determined, because their lives were much better than their pop’s lives. Somehow those three still developed that dog – that go get it.
That’s the difference from someone trying to get into the league and somebody that is trying to be the greatest to ever play the game.
Yes, the history of the game. I have this conversation about the difference between LeBron James (of the Lakers) and Steph Curry (Golden State Warriors guard) often. LeBron has always battled the history of the game. He’s more of a global figure.
I think that is what separates him from (Brooklyn star) Kevin Durant and Steph. Steph is really trying to attain that, and KD is also doing things with his business ventures, but LeBron has always been that. The businesses that he has that we don’t even hear about might be the main businesses for other athletes.
You’re going to start a fire conversation with what you say about KG.
Jackson: There isn’t anyone that comes to mind. I’ve been looking for years for someone to change this – for someone to change the way I feel about this, and it hasn’t happened.
I feel the spirit of what you’re saying, because you saw KG up close in the beginning and saw how that fire evolved. I loved covering Boston Celtics games because I wanted to hear KG communicate the interior pick and rolls. How he’s talking on defense. It was really something to hear and see.
(Phoenix Suns guard) Chris Paul is another. He’s at the scorer’s table barking orders to his teammates on the floor. I had a different respect for KG when I saw that up close. It’s why I'd rather cover games than watch them on TV. Nuance is missed from the couch that changes the perspective of an event when you’re there.
KG was always great to me. I call him "Black Pharaoh." He just has that regal presence about him and could have been anything over time.
A slave rebellion leader, no doubt.
Jackson: True, true, true!
I respected him for how he pays homage to my dude Chris Webber and the Fab Five (from Michigan). There’s a different type of reverence when a player does that when they’re not much younger or even a generation once removed.
Jackson: The one thing I can tell you is, I think that comes from the fact that when you look at Kevin’s life, he never really had a chance to be a kid. There’s parts of the documentary that will still go untold. That’s because he likes to keep certain (expletive) quiet. I respected that.
When you make a move the way he moved from South Carolina to Chicago, you know he was on his own. His mom stayed there. You’re asking a 17-year-old kid, alright, now it’s grow-up time. For real, this is grow-up time. You’re learning Chicago damn near by yourself. Once he gets into the league from high school, he’s really all alone and ended up doing something no one had done in 20 years.
It wasn’t about that. It was the immediate after effect of that.
Players like Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O’Neal, Tracy McGrady – you know, all of these kids who are literally one year younger than him are coming to him for advice throughout their whole careers. They aren’t looking at him as some guy who did something they could do. They’re looking at him immediately. He said it in the movie when Kobe said how you do …
He said "Kobe, I’m 19. You’re 18! We are the same thing. Why am I giving you advice?" Tracy McGrady was a couple of years younger, and they all were coming for this dude like he’s a father figure. And he’s holding that responsibility down.
So the way he revered Chris Webber is easy for him, because he’s not a kid. He’s never been a kid. He’s been a grown man, so he treats Chris Webber like a grown man. He’s very adult and very mature about that. Extremely. He’s an old soul because the life he had to live.
So the way he reveres Webber and (Hall of Fame center) Tim Duncan and (former NBA big man) Rasheed (Wallace) is the same way the younger cats looked at him. The difference is, he didn’t go to Chris Webber for advice outside of basketball. These cats went to KG for life stuff. Based on something you do, brother, we need your help! We need to lean on you.
Black Pharaoh. He’s a leader. In the doc there is one shot where he has a towel over his head and behind his ears looking just like an Egyptian from those times. Maybe I saw that shot back in the day, and subliminally I recalled it later.
Jackson: No doubt!
I wrote a piece on (Bulls great) Scottie Pippen and wondered if he should have been calling (former Chicago coach) Phil Jackson a racist publicly as he was mourning the death of his son, Antron, just a month before.
Jackson: It could be that grief. He had called Phil Jackson a racist before. Some of us who know Phil we know that when we see it too. That’s really nothing new.
Spoke with Roland Lazenby, and he explained that if anyone would ask Phil, he didn’t think that Phil would deny it.
Jackson: Yeah. Phil can’t. I wrote a story you should check out called Sacred Ignorance. I went in on Phil. I rarely go in on people, but he crossed the line. But, yeah, people grieve in different ways. In all honesty, a lot of what Pippen is doing now is part of that. Grieving.
Grieving. Yes. That’s what I tried to allude to. Being here in Philly with Ben Simmons, you see he is going through something in life. Every player doesn’t know how to respond accordingly, and some, like Simmons, will fall through the cracks for whatever reason. He’s an Aussie with a different life view than an American-born basketball player. He’s not built for Philadelphia.
Scoop: You said a mouthful right there. He’s not.
Offered him advice about Philly, and he seemed oblivious to it. Did the same with (former wide receiver) DeSean Jackson with the Philadelphia Eagles, and we saw what happened there the first time he was in Philly.
Jackson: That’s arrogance though. I hear what you are saying, and he and DeSean should have listened. But I don’t care what city it is, he’s still not going to hear what you have to say, and that’s unfortunate.
Ben Simmons changed when (former NBA guard) JJ Redick left. JJ was really big with Ben and (76ers center) Joel Embiid, and Ben in particular. (Miami Heat guard) Jimmy Butler (who was once a teammate of Simmons in Philadelphia) was big as well, but he was tired of Ben’s (expletive).
Jackson: He’s always had that arrogance. If you knew him in high school or LSU, that has always been the case. You’d think that once he got to the NBA, things would change, but they haven’t.
It’s a shame, because Joel loves the dude. I’m not cool with Joel becoming the go-to for whatever is going on with Simmons. He doesn’t have to respond to everything.
Jackson: You live there. That’s Philly. I hope Joel understands what he is dealing with.
We will see.
Scoop Jackson: Yes, we will.